michael jackson's death

[pjay]

most people probably heard that michael jackson died this week.

one thing i remember about his interview with oprah winfrey several years ago was when he was asked about what he remembers about his childhood, his response was particularly marked with regret & sadness.

he stated that because of his dad's strong drive to make the jackson 5 a successful entity, that he would actually become sick to his stomach sometimes just over the presence of his father.

now i know he's had other issues & the controversy can go on forever about him. which i never followed his persona in the past.

but what interests me is how the injuries from our past carry over into into our adulthood & just how much they affect our lives.

i once read about a study done on how violent crimes affect children (school shootings, etc) & the results seemed a little puzzling. a certain percentage of the children had no lasting negative effects, but were surprisingly 'resilient' to the trauma.

i have to believe that those children that did exceptionally well had the benefit of having parents that were a positive impact on their early lives. & helped them to deal with the stress/trauma, to put it somehow in the right perspective.

but it's just surprising to me just how long lasting is the pain that we sometimes hold onto. that we carry with us (why ?). & places (in our childhood) that we constantly return to.

any thoughts ??

[Mariana]

Yes, emotional pain sure lasts longer than physical pain, and sometimes, it doesn't even go away completely. I think what makes it last so long is - perhaps- the fact that when we get emotionally hurt we are pretty aware it's been so unfair and unjust that, somehow, we keep asking ourselves "Why?" and since we didn't deserv to be hurt, we usually carry that odd feeling of unfairness, wishing those who have hurt us would acknowledge what they did and, if possible, apologize. This is something that very rarely happens. People tend to deny they have hurt us, let alone offer an apology.

In MJ's case, I believe his father played an important role in ruining part of his the person he was. That dark side with the child molesting accusations etc., apparently it was rooted on his father doing the same towards him. I am not justifying child molesters, I am just reflecting on how sometimes parents can ruin a kid's life.

Also, being resilient to a trauma, or doing something outstandingly well (he was an awesome dancer and showman) is a way to compensate for the damaged suffered or conceal/deny the pain.

I remember reaidng a long time ago something Freud wrote about "sublimation of instincts." For intance, a potential murdered becomes a surgeon or a butcher instead of going about in his life killing people.

Throught history we've seen many cases like this. Beethoven being deaf in the end and still being able to compose his best works. And some psychologists say Napoleon was a great man and very courageous to compensate for his lack of height :-)

So, pain is hard to endure. Not sure if it ever heals 100%, but in the back of our minds we tend to look for a way to balance that pain with something extraordinary good, maybe as a way to survive and endure such pain.

Great post, pjay!

[Lola]

There is an expression: "the child is father of the man". Naturally, our childhood and infancy is what configures us, totally and completely.
I greatly believe in the psychodynamic approach in psychology. Sure, other factors may play some part, but the early experience, indeed in very early infancy, is what is going to make us what we are.
There are literally tons of pages written on this particular aspect. In reply to your "why?" I find Alice Miller interesting on the topic
www.alice-miller.com

or
www.voicelessness.com

I think that in M. Jackson's case it would be understating to say "his father's strong drive". There is nothing wrong with having a strong drive to do something, or achieve something. But bullying, abuse, and intimidating are a different matter, and it would appear that the Jackson's father employed all these methods.
If M. Jackson had issues (in straight talk, serious psychological problems) then we don't have to look far for the root of these problems.

Best to everyone
Lola

[Lola]

I thought this was interesting, on the subject of FOOs.

""Our relationships within our family of origin are the most powerful ones in our lives. Yet for many of us, they became contaminated and filled with tensions. We have often been shaped and influenced by critical, shaming, abandoning, neglecting and possibly blatantly abusive parenting. This workshop, dually led by Claudia and John, will give you the opportunity to address your unmet developmental dependency needs. You will have the choice to participate in various skill-building exercises. The goal of the workshop is to help you learn certain life skills that you should have learned at each developmental stage of a normal childhood. These skills will enhance your personal freedom. It is another step in putting the past behind and creating greater choices in your life today."

http://www.themeadows.org/events/index.php?rm=event_details&par...;

[Mariana]

I agree with you, Lola. Abusive parents can leave deep wounds that will impact a child's functioning in adult life. Thanks for the links, they are very interesting!